Japanese rods vs the American brands

They seem to be shifting away from Tenkara to going more generalized fishing with their Fishing Discoveries site. I could be misreading it, but that seems to be where their focus is headed.

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The DT rods are good.

There are other good rods.

Dr. Tom has a pretty good web site for shopping.

A magic rod won’t make you a good fisherman any more than shopping for a bunch of rods.

Pick one out and use it till you can cast accurately.

That skill alone will help you catch more fish.

Learn how to present appropriately.

Be stealthy.

No kidding Peter isn’t like me, he is who he is. I use to wonder when people made statements like that. It’s like an off the cuff remark bla bla bla

Who cares about that stuff, it’s all politics.

If you want to be good at fishing, forget the internet and start focusing on fish behavior. Figure out where the fish are, concentrate on how to either mimic or stimulate.

You probably know this stuff already.

Share what you know or do what you want to do.

Be you.

Have fun.

You want to know what rods I use? I’ll tell you but it isn’t important.

Skill is more important than anything.

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This may seem out there but it could help me relate characteristics of Tenkara rods to something I have a fair understanding about.

I’ve been a performing musician for 55 years. For the past 20 years I’ve settled into playing primarily in jazz “big bands”, and more recently in up to ~40 piece chamber orchestras for stage musicals. My main instrument is guitar; whatever style the director-bandleader needs but I also perform on tenor banjo and mandolin when the book has parts for them.

If I’m playing a big band date I’m going to bring an archtop guitar for that “classic big band guitar” sound. If there’s a guitar feature, I will probably bring my wonderful L5-CES (electric) archtop for that fat jazz solo guitar sound but I have modified with a stereo jack and have a soundboard pickup installed to also get the traditional “Freddie Green” rhythm sound that’s the backbone timekeeper for a big band. If no guitar features in the date I’ll bring my Mom’s acoustic archtop with a soundboard pickup. It’s got a punchier acoustic sound because there are no pickups restricting the top’s movement and that makes it more responsive and a better timekeeper with 17 other instruments. It’s also smaller, lighter, with a comfortable neck profile and is a little less fatiguing to play for long dates.

A great guitarist will make any guitar sound good, but a guitar built by a luthier to a standard of quality and sound to match the skills of the musician will inspire the musician and it will sound great. Also a well designed and setup guitar even if not built with the finest tonewoods will not hinder a student’s ability to learn to play it.

I know my two small stream rods of similar lengths have much different characteristics. One is definitely easier to cast, fun and not overpowered for dinks, but exciting and has plenty of backbone for fish (so far to 13") in fast current. The other rod is said to be able to handle bigger fish and gets better hooksets in tight quarters but is “less pleasant” to cast. Of the two, the first rod is probably what I’d hand to my western fly fishing creekin’ buddy to try out a Tenkara rod.

These questions can be asked about any rod(s) but do either of the Karasu rods have characteristics that are distinctive from other rods?
And in what situations are those characteristics best utilized?
Can any of those characteristics help an angler develop their skills?
Can any of those characteristics hinder an inexperienced angler’s skills development?

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@anon86692127 Adam, You have wise words of wisdom my friend. I need to keep practicing. Thank you for reminding me it’s not the rod that makes you a better fisherman but how much time and effort you dedicate to the craft to become a better fisherman.

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UPDATE: the Karasu 400 cm is now available on line if you are interested in the rod.

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People will make up all kinds of stories to support their habit.

I’ve seen kids winding fishing line on a Coke can with a spark plug as a weight zinging out bait outfish guys with thousands of dollars of fly gear.

The Internet is not fishing.

It’s people and computers.

Some people online will fish you with their stuff. They do it all the time in different ways.

Don’t get good at that, don’t practice that. Fish and get good without the computer. Practice the tuna can accuracy. Practice stealthiness and accurate casting to fish.

Target fish, avoid people that target YOU.

Sharing fishing online is something totally different.

And never ever try to break someone’s spirit.

People that do that?

Absolutely malignant sociopaths, steer clear.

The tuna can is your friend.

Sit down next to your favorite stream and study.

Hope everyone is well.

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I have one, it is a great rod. I am amazed with it. Makes me feel like I’m more accurate than I am but whoa, 4m is too long for some streams.

I’ve fished the 3.6 and liked it but not enough fishing to know just how good.

These are not cheap rods. They will not take abuse.

There are cheap rods that deal with fishing, dropping a rod, hitting a tree limb much better than a $500 rod.

It’s not the rod, it’s your skill.

Your skill, not my opinion, that’s what makes you good.

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I agree Adam. I do have a few rods that make me look like I know what I’m doing. However, I know that
my skill level is not utilizing what the rod is actually cable of so I will keep practicing. The rod is probably
saying, “Come on dude, I can do so much more, what’s the problem.” Patience and Practice and I will get there eventually.

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That made me laugh!

The DT rod I have? The 4m has been a magic rod for me so far. I’ve had less than a half dozen magic rods out of the, ahh, I don’t know, 80 or so rods that I’ve gone through. I own 5 very different rods now and am about to put one more back in.

My 5 tenkara rods range from 2.7m to 5m Three are short nest, compact rods.

They comprise more than half my quiver, with the next one being a compact rod as well.

I’m leaving the gentleman alone that can’t see any good in them, he doesn’t know any better and it’s none of my business what he doesn’t know.

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Very true… patience and practice… but focused practice.
For me, I always thought I was a pretty fair caster who just had trouble with wind and would usually pack it up when the breezes really stiffened. Then I made a point of going out to the park intentionally when it was windy to practice. Trial and error, failure and incremental progress, over and over and over. Not thinking about finding a “magic bullet” line or rod, but thinking about finding ways I could make the fly land where I wanted in spite of the wind.
Patience and practice. You are so right.

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On the accuracy practicing in the wind thing, boy-oh-boy do I need a lot more practice with that. Last week was my first trout outing of this season. The Shelter In Place thing due to COVID-19 has really put a crimp in my fishing. I was fishing a super small meadow stream (mostly 1 to 2 feet wide) in substantial variable breezes with a size 3 level line, and just placing your fly on the water was an incredible challenge I was not up to meeting by a long shot.

The rod I was fishing (a Daiwa Sagiri 39MC) is a 3.4 and a 3.9 meter long Zoom Rod and is a Seriyu rod and not a Tenkara rod, but it Tenkara fishes as well as any other Tenkara rod does and considerably better than most T-rods do. Tom Davis sold his ONI # 1 because he likes his Sagiri 39MC better. On the box the rod came in it says “Daiwa Seiko(Thailand)Co.Ltd.” As I understand it Daiwa is a Japanese Company that produces some rods in Thailand, probably to their exacting Japanese design and quality control standards. So in this case and in many others as well, it is not just a question of Japanese Rods versus American branded Chinese made rods and their design and qualities of manufacture That is involved. While the Japanese rod makers do have a considerable advantage in T-rod making due to the understanding they have because that is where Tenkara Fly Fishing originated and has been practiced there from antiquity into the present, they do not have a monopoly on the abilities to design and build excellent Tenkara Rods. And in an activity where good performance is so subjective to individual physical abilities, reaction time profiles and rod action preferences, each rod’s casting and fishing qualities should be judged on an individual basis by the individual angler fishing that specific rod. No One has the ability to predict what make, model, or length of rod will best suit any and all other anglers with any consistent degree of accuracy.

The Daiwa. Sagiri is not a Tenkara Rod. It is not an expensive rod. It is, to my eye at least, a pretty rod but obviously not in the top of the crop Of High Quality Rods out there being made. It just casts and fishes like it is for me and a number of other anglers who own and fish it. In the words of one smitten Daiwa Sagiri owner, “How could anyone build an better rod than a Daiwa Sagiri is no matter what it costs?” Or, as I would like to add, What Country the rod is being made in…Karl.

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I choose a little bit heavier line so I can deal with the wind. I don’t carry a lot of lines, I design my lines as “over all” lines, sticking with the minimal system.

Wind being anything above about 15 miles per hour. That’s quite a bit of wind. I am able to drive the fly to the target, penetrating the wind, over driving it.

Tuna can practice isn’t always about simple casting, it is different types of casting, hard casting, parachute, underhand, all types of casting that you do on the stream. The tuna can directly helps you. Don’t like it? Think it’s sissy? Don’t tell anyone about it, just try it and more than once, it will help you immensely with your catch rate by allowing you to get the fly in front of the fish.

If you don’t know where the fish are, it won’t hurt but knowing where they are is paramount to target casting.

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So right about mindful practice. Casting practice without a target is just arm exercise.

And it’s not just about the fly hitting the target, you also need to consider how to make the tippet (and your line) line up in an advantageous position as the fly lands.

It’s one thing to understand what you should do…
It’s another thing to be able to execute the action…

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@anon86692127 what rods are in your keeper list right now and going forward? I need to start thinning my rods out, I have too many that aren’t being used.

I primarily use a Tenryu 3.9m Compact Furaibo zoom. If I had only one tenkara to use, this is it. The Furaibo is a compact short nest rod.

A Nissin Tenkara Mini at 3.6m for travel and opportunistic, didn’t think I was going to fish trips. Super compact short nest rod in an all around size.

A Nissin Mini V3 keiryu rod at 2.7m which I carry as a spare parts rod and for tight quarters. This is a fantastic and very capable short nest rod.

Discover Tenkara Karasu 4m for tenkara stream fishing and honryu. This is quite possibly my first real magic tenkara rod. I really like it so far.

Gamakatsu Suimu 5m honryu tenkara rod dedicated for long reach and big fish. Walk softly and carry a big stick.

That’s all the rods I have.

I’m going to bring a Hane to Kauai with me to catch rainbow (again) in Waimea Canyon. It is a compact short nest rod that is a quite capable rod for travel. I really enjoy Tenkara USA, the story, friends and Daniel. The Hane just seems to be a rod for this. I might use it in Baja, Mexico for my big adventure there.

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I started with several TUSA rods. I enjoyed them very much, but I did have an issue with repeated breaks with one of them (hook set and landing) but they allowed me to trade it on a different one and I was very pleased with it. I have since acquired many Japanese rods from Tenbum and subsequently sold or gave away my TUSA rods. Nothing against them at all, but I appreciate the feel, fit and finish, and particularly the lightness of the Japanese rods. I let my fishing buddy use a couple of mine…and now he has bought a couple too. I love the sensitivity of the Keiryu/Seiryu rods without the cork handle, as well.

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Pretty much the same.

Tenkara USA rods are now expensive beginner rods.

You can get them on sale or used but as a beginner? There are way more options now that will save money.

Tenkara is pretty well supported now with many domestic options.

Throughout the time tenkara has been outside of Japan, we have found the equipment that was created on many decades of experience superior.

When you know better, you do better.

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Updated!

REMOVED - Tenryu rods.

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Opportunistic Travel Tenkara Kit (non tenkara travel)

Nissin Tenkara Mini at 3.6m for travel and opportunistic, didn’t think I was going to fish trips. Super compact short nest rod in an all around size.

Nissin Mini V3 keiryu rod at 2.7m which I carry as a spare parts rod and for tight quarters. This is a fantastic and very capable short nest rod.

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Regular Tenkara Kit

Discover Tenkara Karasu 4m for #untenkara and larger stream fishing. This is quite possibly my first real magic tenkara rod. I really like it so far.

ADDED - Discover Tenkara 360 for primary tenkara rod.

ADDED - Nissin Zerosum 320 primary small stream tenkara.

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Honryu Tenkara (Mainstream)

ADDED - Nissin Oni 450 honryu tenkara.

Gamakatsu Suimu 5m honryu tenkara rod dedicated for long reach and big fish. Walk softly and carry a big stick.

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I’ve been intrigued by the nissin mini rods (Keiryu and tenkara)…can’t explain why. I don’t have an issue backpacking longer rods, since I’ve been toting 3 piece bamboo fly rods for years…a 2’ rod already seems tiny. I just have an appreciation and fascination with different rods. Would I be “better” if I stuck to a single rod? Probably, but I would feel like I’m missing out on the enjoyment of other rods. Eventually I’ll gravitate toward a few favorites, but I still won’t get rid of the others. I enjoyed the guitar analogy and I would add a similar one with hunting rifles. I have enough to arm a small town, but each one has a special meaning with individual sentiment and experiences. I won’t get rid of ones I haven’t used in a decade. Just seeing them in the safe gives me comfort and enjoyment. Having my rods in a handmade rack on the wall will have a similar effect.

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Adam, what prompted getting rid of the Tenryu? Did you “replace” the Furaibo with another rod?