Tenkara Newbie Needs Some Help

[T-stillwater (Karl Klavon)]

As anglers, we tend to pay the most attention to the waters we are fishing and the fish rather than the surrounding topography, which may be a mistake. Tristan’s drone video lead in to the above video did a great job of showing the mostly timber free rock ridges that lay above the stream valley of he was fishing, which is a daily Terrestrial insect food producer for the trout living in that stream.

As the sun rises, it warms the rock on those ridges. The warmed rock heats the air above and the hot air rises, creating daily Thermal wind currents as cooler air from below rise to fill the void created. The up hill winds transport tons of land based insects into higher lakes and streams for the fish to eat. And when the wind rises, the fish start looking to the water surface for their food.

Aquatic insects only make up 5% of the total insect population, with the other 95% coming from the land, this is not a Hatch but a random deposit of many different kinds of bugs intermittently, so the fish are mostly willing to take anything that looks like it could be food on the surface of the water. While Terrestrial Patterns are called “Dry Flies” they do not ride high and dry on top of the water as aquatic dry fly patterns do but low in the water Damp Fly Patterns.

Much has and is being made about the Simplicity of Tenkara Fly Fishing - a rod, line and fly, with the fly usually being a Wet Fly. But fishing with Kebari, Soft Hackles, Beadhead Nymphs, streamers and such is, in reality, much more complicated than fishing with Dry Flies. How so? With dry flies you only have to work in two dimensions - length and width, and it all takes place on the water’s surface where you can easily see the fly and the fish coming for and taking the fly. Fishing subsurface puts the fly where it is hard to tell how deep it is ln the water and control it’s depth and you are mostly fishing Blind, which is anything but simple.

Watching Tristan fishing with a Damp dry Fly in the video, (except for watching the fly instead of watching his line) He did not appear to be fishing any differently than he casts and fishes with unweighted Kebari and he caught 42 fish in a little over 2 hours. By that time, all 6 of the fly’s legs were missing, as well as its 2 wings and most of the red eyes and head. The Metalic Blue Over-Body was all shredded and only held on by the ribbing, and the fly was still catching fish more than well enough. In my view it was not the pattern that was important but where and how the fly was being Presented, On The Surface, where the fish were looking to find their food.

Like Chris said, line droop will cause drag. Land based insects are out of their element in the water and will fight to get themselves out of the water and the trout can be attracted to take them by the movements the bugs make, so as long as the drag is not too great, and may actually help in catching fish. As for tenkara’s long rod and the ability to hold line up and off of the water with level line, in pocket water you are much better off with line off of the water than dealing with a fly rod and reel Heavy Floating Fly Line laying across multiple braided currents where Mending will not be enough to keep the fly from dragging too much…Karl.

[arcanetribe (Ian)]

I don’t see any replies in this thread that look like a bot…?

[Brian_Miller]

Karl mentions an interesting and popular discussion.

A fish’s diet is going to vary greatly by time of year, region, drainage, even within drainages, fish species and size, but here is a hatch chart for the Yellowstone River.

Here is a study showing the diet of 5 species native and non‐native trout within the Great Basin and Yellowstone River Basin ecoregions during July & August.

Diet overlap among non‐native trout species and native cutthroat Trout...

adding image

Does the combined data reveal that even during a period of expected high Coleoptera (beetle), Diptera (housefly, moth) and Other (…hopper, cricket, spider…) terrestrials activity on or near the surface of the water, that Ephemeroptera (mayfly), Trichopteran (caddis), and then followed by Diptera (housefly, moth), were the primary diet of the fish examined, with “Coleoptera” and “Other” being only relative “blips”?

And since fish feed year-round, and instinctively expend less calories to feed than the calories they consume (or die) would they consume a lot more aquatic insects in their nymphal and pupal stages annually than adults?

Also, do they learn or sense that rising to the surface exposes them to predation?

And moving to the actual process of catching fish, how many competition (fly) anglers use dry flies?

One of the things I like so much about Tenkara is the effectiveness of using tightline techniques with wet fly and nymph attractor patterns to mimic a wide variety of insects below the surface. I am certainly no expert but personally think learning the fly first cast, keeping the casting line off the water so that the fly is fishing and the ability to detect strikes is almost immediate, along with fly manipulation (sasoi) techniques during the drift have been the most helpful for me.

[T-stillwater (Karl Klavon)]

Wow Brian, you certainly did a lot of diligent research to prove me wrong. Trout are a captive audience in that they have to eat what is available to them in the waters where they live. And Hatch Charts are not usually researched on Thin Blue Lines nor do they tend to include land based insects because they usually cover fertile streams with healthy aquatic insect populations.

For sure stomach sampling gives a much more accurate picture of what the fish are eating at the time the sample was taken but are not always accurate over the long hall. And while the Euro Nymph is the bread and butter patterns fished in Fishing Competitions, dry flies are also fished at times when the fish are demanding them.

And there is something to be said for fishing the flies and techniques that work best in the structure of stream being fished. So far as I know, completion anglers do not fish with Tenkara Tackle or Kebari Patterns either. There is no one style of fly casting technique that is best in any and all situations and under all conditions.

As for myself, I will continue to do what works best for me in my fishing environments as I am sure you will continue to do. We are all out here to Have Fun, and by the way, did you watch the video?

[Scott_T (scott)]

Karl,

I watched the video. I heard Tristan say “I was keeping the fly towards the top of the surface, so I can see the fly better”. How is this not fishing a wet fly? And thus, how does it differ than a “spider” kept towards the top of the surface? A spider, by the way, that is tied in about 3 minutes and costs less than a buck. As opposed, to say “I do have one more of these flies, but they’re expensive. I’d rather keep them in action as long as possible”.

Scott

P.S. Since you brought up doing diligent research, I doubt Brian put as much time into posting a couple links, as it did to watch Tristan’s video, and then write your three posts extolling the advantages of terrestrials fished on the surface. Not that the video was bad, especially when I started watching at 1.25x speed. But what I really took away from it, is that he was on a creek with a massive population of very hungry high altitude naive brookies that would likely hit a bare hook. Fun times for sure.

[T-stillwater (Karl Klavon)]

Hi Scott, thank you for pointing out a point I was trying to make: You can pretty much fish a dry fly like you are now fishing Wet flies and have great success - with a fly first presentation, rod high and line held up and off of the water for drag free drifts. But with a dry, if your fly is dragging, you will be able to see the drag. Whether it is the fly or the line that’s dragging, drag will form little chevron formations on the water’s surface, pointing upstream if the fly/line is moving slower than the water, and pointing downstream if the fly and the line are moving downstream faster than the water is moving, which isn’t as visible with wet flies, especially as you will be watching your tippet to line knot and not the fly in wet fly fishing.

In the case of Tristan fishing the Blue Bottle fly pattern, the pattern differs from Spider and Kebari wet flies as it has an Over Body tied in with Closed Cell Foam that makes the fly Float, although low in the water and it will float higher, longer if the foam is greased. But it does not need floatant to make the fly float. Closed Cell Foam is commonly used on ant, beetle and hopper patterns and poppers as well. After catching 42 trout, the Blue Bottle was a trashed example of its former self, pretty much unrecognizable. And yet, it was still catching fish quite well.

And, as for this being a little stream full of starved little brook trout that could be caught on a bare hook (Perhaps, but you will do better with a fly on the line), high gradient, small mountain streams is the kind of water and terrain that gave rise to the development of Tenkara Fly Fishing in the first place.

Bringing Hatch Charts into the discussion is a turn toward the Dark Side. Hatch Charts are a tool most used by Match the Hatch Fly Fishermen. In reality, they do not help fishermen catch more fish. What they do do is help fly shops sell more fly patterns, hooks and fly tying materials in the hope of anglers catching more fish. If anglers can be convinced that they Need multiple fly patterns for each aquatic insect out there, for each of its Life Stages - nymphs, emergers and dry flies - just look at all the extra flies, hooks, beads and tying materials that can be sold.

Thankfully, Tenkara is mostly resistant to that kind of exploration because of the effects of the One Fly Theory, that fly pattern does not matter very much, which made brick and mortar fly shops resistant to stocking Tenkara fly fishing tackle. The rods were so cheap there was little profit margin, no reels to sell, and little in the way of supporting sales of lines and tying supplies. But inspite of all this Tenkara fishing has grown and continues to grow.

The fact that I am often attacked for advocating fishing with Dry Flies shows there are many anglers here who are opposed to trying dry flies for no good reasons. The other day I read about a question asked of the angler who had won first place in the World Fly Fishing Championship 3 Times, what his advise would be to a new angler just wanting to get into Euro Nymph Fishing? He said that such a person should fish with Dry Flies for 2 Years before switching over to nymph patterns. That fishing Dry would teach how to read water, current and drag free drift much more easily and faster than fishing with wet flies can. After learning the Dry Fly Lessons, he would be able to fish with nymphs much better, faster.

Here is a question for you: Why do Euro Nymph competitive anglers still have full length Floating Fly Lines on their reels behind their Mono Rigs to their flies when the fly line seldom comes off of the reel in fishing? The answer is that they are not willing to give up fishing with dry flies when dry’s are more effective than fishing with wet flies.

[Brian_Miller]

@T-stillwater

Bringing Hatch Charts into the discussion is a turn toward the Dark Side.

The Yellowstone River hatch chart was used to show what is generally expected to be present in that river as a point of reference for what was actually found in wild Yellowstone River fish stomach contents during the months of July and August. I thought the data might be indicative of attractor wet flies and nymph patterns being productive for me at Pacific Northwest fertile coastal to fairly sterile subalpine elevations; in small coastal creeks to 100’ wide mountain rivers, that has resulted in them most often being left pre-rigged on my lines. However I admit when I’m walking streamside and see hoppers jumping-gliding out of my way or an adult Caddis or Spruce fly lands on me and fish are rising, I’ll tie one on.

[Brian_Miller]

@T-stillwater

Here is a question for you: Why do Euro Nymph competitive anglers still have full length Floating Fly Lines on their reels behind their Mono Rigs to their flies when the fly line seldom comes off of the reel in fishing?

Dem’s da rulez for fly angling competition; probably a concession to the fly fishing tackle mfgs.
If it weren’t for that they could use fixed line tactical nymphing rods if they wanted to.