Wading rivers and streams

To greatly oversimplify, do you want nature or do you want good fishing?

A number of the streams I fish are on NYC water supply land. On one of them, a large tree was knocked down by Hurricane Irene in 2011. It made what for me had been the best “big fish” hole unfishable - to this day. Granted, eventually it will decay and be gone, but so will I. Another stream, also on NYC water supply land had so many trees fall into the stream and across the fisherman’s trail running alongside the stream that significant sections of it aren’t worth the effort to fish - not really enough open water between the trees to make it worth the three or four casts you might get.

The “nature or good fishing question” goes right to the heart of stocking fish as well - which is probably a much more contentious subject than wading or pinning logs.

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I wish that I could have both. But living in the suburbs of NYC, I know this is highly unrealistic. To expand…even in the NE corridor.

Agreed.

I fully understand that I am asking for is unrealistic, and their is definitely some hypocrisy in my statements.

Although all restoration efforts are artifical… at the same time they are much much better than none. Regarding the stocking notes both in the video and additionally what we do here in the states…introduce invasive species. I wish there was a better plan than just making anglers happy. From the sliver of what I understand, its all about the politics of the angler…and not so much about the ecosystem.

Please understand that i do appreciate the efforts of what the government and private organizations do to help provide us as anglers with better water and conditions. Its more than I do myself, as I am just the end user. I just wish for more because their is a whole different beauty and thrill to catch trout in a more natural environment. It is not just about trout. If it were, I would visit a trout park.

I must admit I have a thorn in my paw regarding environmental management. The Marine fishery here in the the NE is suffering and its all because of commercial interests. The Marine fishery is a 100% wild fishery…and its is just getting hammered. For this reason, environmental management is a bit of a sore subject.

On a side note:
Regarding the fallen trees. I am surprised that you do not like the challenge of it. You know the trout are probably stacked up in there…hahhahahaa. Truth be told…I get as frustrated as the next guy hanging up on fallen branches and structure I cannot see. My poor flys are hanging down there like christmas ornaments.

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I don’t put much faith in government for appropriate environmental management. It is probably the worst management possible. In Bill Bryson’s book, A Walk in the Woods, he points out that along the entire length of the Appalachian Trail, the sections that are on government land have a lower diversity of trees. Find a copy Michael Crichton’s book, State of Fear, and take a look at the references in the back of the book. In the past people believed many wacky ideas to be true, that were later seen as quite foolish. One that stands out was the mismanagement of Yellowstone Park for many years. One of the foolish things done resulted in bears becoming a nuisance. Which seems to be the idea behind the Yogi the Bear cartoon. Yogi may sleep till noon but before it’s dark he’ll every picnic basket in Jelly Stone Park.

I’ve been going to the N.C. outer banks for a long time. Long enough to witness the change is laws to accommodate first the commercial fishing interest, as that subsided the laws, and really the attitudes of the people who have moved there over the last 40 years, things changed to favor sport fishing.

One of the best books I have read about the politics of fish stocking, breeding, gene manipulation , politics of sport fishing, etc, is - An Entirely Synthetic Fish. Rainbow Trout are more robust that other species, they can survive being transported with much lower mortality rates. They have been stocked worldwide, breed to create fish that grow faster, and larger. Which probably also breeds out hardiness, and their ability to survive in the wild. (btw, one of the WTT videos also touches on how stocking fish suppresses populations of wild fish, and if the stocked fish breed their offspring results in less hardy population), Anyway, I think it is an interesting view of how sport fishing effects stream ecology.

http://midcurrent.com/books/review-an-entirely-synthetic-fish/

http://andershalverson.com/

Anyway, I recall the first time I visited Mystic Seaport, and a guide on the fishing schooner, the LA Dunton, saying an old saying among the fishing crews was to ask - Are you going to fish or cut bait ? Sometimes instead of preparing to fish, or talking about going fishing. It’s better to just Go Fish. I’m guilty of doing a lot of bait cutting for a lot of my interest. :grimacing:

Yes - I do 40 hours per week for WTT and around 20 to 30 hours on Discover Tenkara :slight_smile: I sometimes sleep and also take my kids to school…

my triploid drank your milkshake…

A perfect example of a solution thought up by someone…yeah supposedly sterile…

Question is: how many native fish are inside that Volkswagen?
…hahhahahhahaha.

That was in the UK… the same are planted in the states…I just picked that picture because it was the funniest.

the source…

http://www.flyfishing.co.uk/general-fly-fishing-discussion/95202-slipped-through-triploid-net.html

Its the off season, and its fun to cut bait sometimes. I like your chopping techniques.

I received a reply from Underwater Oz a couple of days ago. I’ve held off forwarding what he wrote because I thought he might login to the forum and respond directly. He has either been to busy or has decided against responding directly.

The following is what he wrote, plus four attachments. In short his view is that wading is damaging. But from my understanding of his material it mostly supports damage to fish eggs from wading through spawning beds during the 3 phases of development: green eggs, to eyed eggs, to yoke fry (fry that have hatched , but are still feeding off the yoke, which gradually is consumed), mortality can also increase due to fungi spreading on to eggs in various stages of development. But not much material supplied about other types of damage to the stream bed due to wading. My view is streams survive flood waters, and can survive wading as long as it isn’t a constant daily stream of people wading the same areas. A small creek runs along the south edge of my lawn, during flooding I’ve seen stones the size of beach balls being shoved down stream.

Two of the attachments are from a study done in Montana 23 years ago. Maybe you can read the uploaded images, I could not unless I opened them in Preview / Adobe.

Ozzie wrote:
[ "Wild brook trout spawn in late fall and their egg laden redds are spread out in streams and river tributaries. From October until the following Feb or March, if the redds are trampled on by anglers and hunters, the eggs are crushed and an entire generation of wild brook trout are gone forever. This also pertains to wild browns. As to wild rainbows, they spawn in the Spring and are subject to the same damage. The redds of wild brookies, whose depressions are hardly noticeable, and very small, can be crushed by only one careless step.

My video, Not Just Trout, which is only in presentation format at this time, in one segment, shows the entire spawning cycle of wild brook trout. I place a heavy focus on this subject to my audience. The two attachments above (note; I was not able to upload these two pictures) are stills from this video.

The attachments show a spawning wild brook trout pair and the redd condition before eggs are deposited, and the redd condition after the completion of spawning. The other two attachments were taken from a magazine; I lost the first page but there is enough information to understand the author’s point.

I disagree with the statement below from Paul Gaskell about damage from wading being minimal. Regulations to the Heritage Section of the Little Lehigh Creek, a beautiful spring creek in Allentown PA, where no wading was ever allowed, were changed in January 1st 2011. Since that time, due to wading, most of the streambed vegetation in this one mile section is now non existent and the hatches are a fraction of what they were before the changes. I may add, the fishing has also been affected. You can probably find blogs on this subject." ]

[Opps. sorry. I can not upload the other two attachments Ozzie sent to me. They are *.emi files, which the forum blocks from being uploaded. They were two pictures of spawning bed, that he calls Redds. One picture was Redd - clean and ready for eggs, The second picture showed the Redd - with eggs covered by gravel and coarse sand ]

Anyway, in my view he makes the case for damage to fish eggs during their 3 stages of development if waded through. And that different species of trout spawn at different times of the year. If you know what species of trout are in the stream, and can recognize the places they are likely to lay their eggs damage to them could be minimized or avoided. Or just don’t wade during that time.

Otherwise his information did not support general stream bed damage from random path wading in the stream at other times. With the possible exception of the damage done to Little Lehigh Creek in Pa. after it was opened to wading. I think more information is needed about what happened there to assess it correctly.

Interesting that the Fish Squish article mentions streams being closed to wading on certain dates. I don’t think I’ve ever seen or heard of wading being restricted between specific dates, but open to wading at other times.

If I recall correctly in one of the Wild Trout Trust videos or on the WTT website it stated fish mortality rates during the first year is 90%, and 40% during second or third years. Due to various causes: from being eaten by stream predators, to simply being washed away by flood waters.

[ if you can not read the Fish Squish article, and would like to. Send me a PM with your email address and I can send them to you. You should be able to read them using Adobe or similar app by zooming the image, The text will be larger but fuzzier] Oh, actually just noticed you can click on the images of the magazine articles and open them in a new tap, from there you can save it, and open it with an application program that allows you to zoom the image, and read it.

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Great stuff and it makes sense.

roughly 4 months or more from spawn to hatch…in the fall and the spring if you want to give time for any species in the river. That pretty much shuts down the river. The Little Lehigh Creek example is fascinating.

I think the thing to take away from all of this…is just be cautious and careful out there.

Thank you Ozzie and David.

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Hi, apologies, I thought it was totally a given that you don’t wade on redds before trout swim up fry pop out of the gravels.

I was talking about fishing within season and focusing on invertebrate and plant populations.

Best.
Paul
PS an old blog of mine on exactly the subject of wading on redds (with video)

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The log pinning techniques can and should be used to stabilise natural forms of woody material such as log jams and fallen trees.

In the UK there is complete paranoia about wood in rivers (and the incredible difficulties in getting permission to reverse that policy or to overcome some of the impact of deforestation hinge on proving you can stabilise it. Hence the demo video on securing methods and understanding the effect of angle to the current).

UK anglers are among the most resistant to either not pulling out perfectly good habitat or re introducing it.

Here is a video explaining the massive increase in parr and smolt survival achieved by rebalanced predator/prey interactions by making the habitat more structurally varied via woody material introduction (also mentions you can get same effect by just fencing off the river and stopping pulling out wood that falls in, you just have to wait 10 years which is a tough sell to angling club committees)

For the impatient, the example starts from about 6min 30sec in the video

PS look out for the tenkara fish sampling that I managed to shoehorn into the video when the electro fishing failed!

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Yup, even in my opening statement I noted spawn period. What I didn’t know is the window recommended, nor did I know the brook trout redds were hard to identify post spawn. I would assume all redds may be hard to id after 3 months of sediment in a river.

With a window Ozzie recommended being potentially October thru March . Thats 6 months for brookies! If one cares at all about wild rainbow populations I would assume then roughly a 6 month period starting in the spring pretty much will keep the ok to wade flag off the pole.

from the site that also notes your video:

2-3 months for eggs to hatch

At 7.80C the eggs will hatch in 60 days but at 4.70C they will take 97 days to hatch.

then another month of wigglin alevins

The newly hatched trout are called alevins, and they live in the gravel,
feeding off the remaining yolk that is attached to their body for 14-30
days

thats 3-4 months. I assume that Ozzie may have an extra two months to account for the actual spawn period and the annual date/conditions variable for the start end. That does account for 5- 6 months total.

This is all about us understanding our choices and the consequences. Sort of like speeding on the highway. I know the recommended speed. Its my choice to obey it or not.

For me…My number one objective on the river is enjoying what I enjoy most. Fishing and Nature. I recognize that I do have a negative impact on the fishery and on the ecosystem even without ever stepping foot into a river. Its just the business of the pass time. I think its fair to say minimizing interaction with the stream bed cannot hurt in reducing my footprint…pun intended.

The Heritage Section of the Little Lehigh Creek senario I find really interesting. I wonder if there are any papers written on the topic. Sell your waders!!! hahahhahaha.

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It’s a good that I clicked on the video. I thought I had watched it already because I recalled hearing Wye and Usk, seeing Simon and the Jack Russel. But it was the Buffer Strip Fencing video I had watched a couple of days ago. Apparently an edit of the video from the same outing. There are several informative videos on the WTT vimeo channel. Thanks for linking the video.

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I have two trout streams where I live in middle Tennessee and one river which is about as large as my trout streams. The only way I can wade them is in the summer when it hasn’t rained in a while. I do like to wade to get my fly upstream of the fish; however, when the water is fast and cold, I will remain on the bank or get the spinning reel some action of fish with old red wigglers.