Fuji-san Jun Kebari

Kebari & Flies
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Well, guys. Thanks for the replies. I should be at least 100 miles north on I 77 by now, instead of still home goofing off. I’m going to see my brother in Ohio for a few days, maybe a few cousins. Probably no internet connection till next week. My brother wouldn’t know and wouldn’t care which end of a computer is the front and which the back. I will be not far from Anthony. (Belmont, Ohio). Thus a rushed reply.

Fuji-san writes in his lecture document, the emphasis is on the movement of the jun kebari. (on page 6)
「順毛鉤 」（ 写真 ）
動き」に重きをおいて考え出したのがこの毛鉤である。
Fuji Sensei 2007 Tenkara Lecture PDF

Anthony, yes the picture in the book matches what I recall in the video. The videos I am referring to are Modern Tenkara and Modern Tenkara Part 2. [ 現代テンカラ & 現代テンカラ パ-ト2].
https://10colorstenkara.com/t/modern-tenkara-book-and-videos-by-fuji-hiromichi/61

As for the digital translation of 順毛鉤. In my experience how it is digitally translated often changes depending on the punctuation of the sentence or the other words in the sentence or sentence structure. Often it will translate as Order fly, But also most of the time if you click on the translation and alternate translation is Forward Fly.
Each of these will probably translate differently.
「順毛鉤 」。順毛鉤 。順毛鉤釣り方法。順毛鉤巻く、順毛鉤巻く。

In my opinion google translate used to work much better than it does now.
I noticed it started become real screwy a couple of years ago. An internet search found stories reporting that Google was “improving” their digital translation by using AI, artificial intelligence. Well, imo, it was not an intelligent move. AI is thus far fake intelligence. We have nothing to fear yet from AI. It’s not yet Skynet. No worries for most of us anyway, [I was looking at some stuff from the 2017 RSNA in Chicago in November. There was a big emphasis on AI and the warning that Doctors won’t yet be replaced by AI, but doctors who use AI will replace doctors who do not. Yikes]

Lastly, about the さかさま毛鉤, Sakasama Kebari. I don’t think it is a widely used type of kebari nor a widely used name. I suspect it is a name invented by the author of the webpage.

See ya next week.

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Hi Anthony, I have that book, have tied up some of the patterns long ago and used them with good results.

I think it is cool that you have posted this particular book and these flys. Fuji-san does not get enough press, neither does a lot of other tenkara experts in Japan. But it is people like you that bring this to light and I appreciate it.

Thank you.

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Surely I think too.

He is made the best sakasa-kebari and long line

He is also excellent for real fishing and is explained to beginners in a way that is easy to understand

It is excellent in all aspects in Japan’s tenkara fishing

Thank you for introduction of Mr. Hiromichi Fuji （富士弘道）

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Over the weekend I was thinking about the weird translations we get from digital translations of Japanese words into English.

Such as 順毛鉤 as Forward Flush or Order Fly. Or 順毛鉤、as Forgiven Hooks or Order Fly. Or 順毛鉤。as Order, or 「順毛鉤」as “Furukawa” or Order Fly. And テンカラ順毛鉤 as Ten color sequential flush, etc. The silly Flush translation never showed up till Google started using AI for translation. But once in while, in the correct sentence structure, 順毛鉤 Jun Kebari will translate as Forward Fly. How it is translated depends on adjacent words or punctuation.

But what should Jun 順 translate into in English?
Well, it kind of depends. On how it is used. I think we get goofy translations because translation software engines have a limited vocabulary of meanings for words with multiple context definitions.

Did you ever stop to think about English words that may translate into something really odd in Japanese? Or other languages. That would be confusing to people who don’t have a deep understanding of English.
Especially if Google or other digital translation engine has a limited understanding of the language too. I think it happens a lot going from Japanese into English ( or other languages) And back the other way also.

Just think how confusing the English word - Fast - could be.

How confusing would these sentences be if the only definition you had for “fast” meant quick or swift?
Mike is a fast runner. [quick] Ok, we’re good we can understand this sentence.

When Sally became fast in the fence, she busted up a lot of stuff trying to get free. [ when you’re trapped you’re not going anywhere quickly]

Mark thought it would be a good idea to fast for five days to lose some weight and renew his body. [where fast means to not eat anything] Though I guess going somewhere quickly for 5 days may also result in losing some weight. But probably a lot of wear and tear on his body.

My watch says it is 3 o’clock but your watch is fast. [ uh oh, what the heck is a quick watch?]

Stand fast or I will shoot ! [ uh oh, what to do? Stand ? Or do something quickly?]

The children were fast asleep. [ I don’t know, does that mean they went to sleep quickly? Or only that they are in a deep sleep. Or were sound asleep? Not wait, what’s sound asleep mean? Let’s see, sound is some kind of noise. What could sound asleep mean? What is fast asleep?]

Language can be so entertaining and confusing.
Then there’s the word “Bad”. Which often means the opposite of it’s original meaning.
He made a bad mistake. Santa Claus knows if you’ve been bad or good. Or. He has a bad Ford Mustang. What? is something wrong with the car? No, it’s real good, super cool Mustang. And so it goes… I think pictures help a lot… :confused::exploding_head: :thinking:

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Playing with words. What could / does Jun [ 順 ] mean?

I found this exploration interesting.
順 as noun adjective, can mean: obedient; docile; submissive; meek .
https://nihongodera.com/dictionary/jpen/順

Ok, then how would adjective Jun + Flow , 順流, jun-ryū, translate?.
Well, as Forward Flow, or Order flow.

Oddly Google suggested this phrase: 順流逆流 movie. Which as you might recognize, looks like Jun Flow + Sakasa Flow, actually Jun-ryū gyakuryū movie. And google translates it as “forward flow back flow movie”. But it is the title of a 2000 Honk Kong movie, that was translated into English as “Time and Tide”. Odd.

What about Jun + Wind, 順風? Jun Kaze becomes junpū or junfū. Favorable Wind.
Or from Chinese as a verb, to go with the wind. Go with the flow.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/順風

The antonym (the opposite) being 逆風, gyakufū or sakasa fū, if you wish. Against the wind.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/逆風

Just as a sakasa kebari , 逆毛鉤, would have the hackle pointed the opposite (reverse or inverted) direction, compared to the (forward) direction of the hackle on a Jun Kebari , 順毛鉤.

If thinking about pulsing the kebari, aka Sasoi, 誘い. I could see the hackle of a sakasa kebari, 逆毛鉤, being viewed as oriented against the flow when the line is tugged, and the hackle of a jun kebari, 順毛鉤, being viewed as oriented in the direction of the water flow when the line is pulled.
Also, as an oh btw, the alternate google translation of 順毛鉤を [Jun kebari o], is “the forward fly”. The addition of を wo or o , forces it too translate differently. を being a Japanese grammar marker.

Sometimes you can figure out what some Japanese word or phrase means by adding either of the following two phrases after the unknown word or phrase. を英語で [which means, in English language] Example 順を英語で. Or add “to ha” [ とは] Kind of a shortened way to ask, what is? Example 誘いとは, What is sasoi? It doesn’t always work, but sometimes it does and one of the top search results may offer a clue to a correct translation. However, you have to be someone easily kept occupied by doing odd stuff. I once had a dog that liked to chase his own tail, I think it rubbed off on me. :roll_eyes:

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jun-kebari Old shape

img_4%20(2)
img_4%20(2)505×436 28.5 KB

hook #14~16

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@dwalker it’s fun to mess about with that stuff - I always enjoy seeing your research

I do similar research (probably not as in depth usually) but don’t record or document anything and end up forgetting anything that I learned … I should dump it all into a big word document or something - if I did that I’d have a nice resource for myself

I hope you’re keeping track off all of this stuff!

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I really enjoy that book - it has such a nice bunch of color kebari pictures

It’s funny that I’ve had that book for a while now and I’d seen those pictures of those particular jun kebari many times - but it just never struck me that they were called that - and seeing as that term is used more generally (in the english language references that I’ve seen) to mean that more typical wet fly style hackle - it struck me that “jun” kebari had a wider meaning than is in typical english language usage

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@todoroki34 thinking about Japanese kebari words …

I know sakasa kebari 逆さ毛鉤 is translated as reverse kebari…

because of the shape of a hat (kasa / 笠) or umbrella (kasa / 傘 ) I was wondering if the name could be related to hat 笠 or umbrella 傘 ?

such as upside down umbrella ? 逆 傘

or upside down hat ? 逆笠

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I think the meaning is closer to this one

“花笠＝Hanagasa” is the name for commercial base
It is a unique name of a personal item

The hackle of kebari is called “蓑毛 = minoge”
蓑＝Rain clothes

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I agree and I feel sad.
More sad was not an accurate report about kebari

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Thanks Anthony. I used to open a word document and keep track of, websites, Japanese search phrases, etc. But no longer do after becoming more confident I can just figure out the phase I want as needed. However, phrase that are difficult or that might be useful to others I still add them to John’s Tenkara Word Bank.
John Sachens" Tenkara Word Bank

Anyway, There is the hanagase kebari, 花笠毛鉤. Literally 花・笠 Flower Hat kebari. A name that Yuu Cadowachi said was created by the late Horie Keigu [堀江渓愚] I think it would also fall under the category of Jun Kebari (順毛鉤). A quick search on the TUSA forum would probably find Yuu’s explanation or description and story about the Hanagasa kebari.

Here Yuu ties a Hanagasa kebari

Sadly for some reason Yuu’s blog has fallen silent. I think there was only a single new post last year. 54 the year before, and 180 in 2015. After a break from it I hope he returns to updating it. The refurbished blog had much better image quality vs his old blog.

http://petauro.hatenablog.com/

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I agree @dwalker. His blog was great and had a lot of wonderful information. One of my, now, most used flies came from his blog.

Based on other places that I’ve seen him active online, it seems he’s really moved into salmon flies right now and more western FF.

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[quote=“dwalker, post:32, topic:661, full:true”]

The peacock herl, soft hackled wet fly - a case of convergent evolution - of course western anglers have also tied these (with different hackle of course) for a long time

My go to fly, before I ever fished tenkara, was in fact basically this same fly - but tied with a hen (chicken) rather then hen pheasant hackle.

A Japanese friend on facebook brought the term Hanagasa up to me recently - that’s why I was wondering about the “kasa” in sakasa kebari perhaps referring to the shape

he shared this link 伝承系『沈み花笠』の作り方 | 吉田毛鉤/吉田毛鉤ラボ

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This is also true for me. However, instead of hen hackle I primarily used partridge or starling. In fact, during my first 6 months of fishing tenkara I didn’t even know about kebari. A partridge and peacock was the first fly that I caught a fish on with tenkara and is still a favorite; especially for brook trout.

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Yuu’s description of what a hanagasa kebari is in a post made Feb 1, 2013, on the TUSA forum:

[ "Hi everybody,
my name is Yuu. I have a blog about Tenkara and recently I posted a picture of a valsesian fly made by Davide, one of my italian facebook friends to show that japanese kebari and valsesian fly are really similar.
Davide asked me to explain what Hanagasa is. In simple words, Hanagasa is a word created by a japanese tenkara master, Keigu Horie, to indicate a kebari that reminded him of a traditional conical hat of Yamagata prefecture in Japan. Now there are two types of Hanagasa, depending of the direction of the hackles: Hanagasakebari and Sakasa(hanagasa)kebari. Hanagasa usually use soft hackles as partridge or pheasant. If made with cockhackles, is not a hanagasa.
I hope it helps, Yuu " ]

Link to the TUSA forum post on this topic:
(be aware that many of the links in the post are broken, such as the ones to Yuu’s old blog)
TUSA forum - What is a Hanagasa kebari

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It is very strange for me to discuss hanagasa-kebari

Originally the name of hanagasa-kebari is not in tenkara-kebari

It is not also in the local name of tenkara-kebari
It is not a generic term such as representing a form / kind
The product name was created by tenkara-kebari seller

hanagasa-kebari is a product name

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I suspect the name, hanagasa kebari, may have started as a product. Then later it became a generic name with use or by being used on magazines by popular writers.

Something very similar is common in America. Or at least it is where I grew up.

There is a type of wrench that should be call - an adjustable open end wrench. In other countries called - an adjustable spanner.

The Crescent Tool Company did not invent this type of wrench, it was invented by Richard Clybum in England in 1842 or by Edwin B. Budding, who is also credited with inventing it. In 1885 Enoch Harris was issued a US patent for his improved version.

I think in America the Crescent Tool Company was just the most successful company making and selling them for many years. And many people formed the habit of calling all adjustable open end wrenches - crescent wrenches. It did not matter what company actually made them. Crescent wrench became a generic name. Or at least it did in the part of the country where I grew up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crescent_(brand)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjustable_spanner

A very similar thing happened that caused the little string on the end of tenkara rods, that we attach the fishing line to - to become called the Lillian. Which by coincidence I have have been researching this evening. It is kind of an interesting story. Maybe I was able to figure it out correctly. I will make a separate post about it. :wink:

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The topic of Hanagasa kebari

From the common wrench this color is mine
From now on, call this color is " mine"

· · · It looks the same to me :thinking:

There is no creative idea nor creative use

Change only the name that originally exists for personal business
· · · The explanation of traditional kebari is also strange story
Is this a decent business that can receive money

The kebari I made with the wild cocoon I introduced for the first time

From now on it is call to " todo-kebari"
· · · I think that everyone will laugh and I will laugh together :rofl:

What I and my friends are doing now is “to tell the right things”

Correct knowledge is born from correct information
Everyone’s thing to judge and enjoy about it

The knowledge of kebari introduced so far may be an unfair story
That judgment is done by everyone
This is deepening your pleasure

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Todo Kebari is my favorite now. I love the cocoon silk dubbing!!

But it is hard to land トド on tenkara rods :joy: :flushed: