I was on a Tenkara workshop recently (expertly run by Paul Gaskell) when the subject of line colour came up, vis-a-vis spooking fish. There was much talk of the benefits of the no-longer-produced Valcan stealth-green level line v’s the readily available fluro pink and orange. Since then I’ve been down a bit of a rabbit hole in search of a stealth alternative to Valcan. I occurred to me this morning that I was on a fools errand and if there was any obvious advantage to stealth v’s fluro level line then Japanese anglers would be using it and Japanese tackle manufacturers would be producing it. What does everybody else think? Is there a distinct difference or is it all in the mind of the angler rather than the fish?
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I don’t believe it makes any difference at all. I nymph probably 90% of the time and often have my level line below the surface, in order to get to the bottom of a hole, and it doesn’t seem to affect the fish at all.
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A stealthy line might make some difference but I believe if I had not clearly seen a small unusual movement in my line that I would have missed many of the fish I’ve caught.
I have tied up graduated Keiryu Tenjo style lines from a couple of feet of neon level line, then a couple lengths and sizes of clear Seaguar fluoro fishing line with a tippet ring at the end. I add a length of tippet appropriate for depth. I tie on Owner yarn markers that make the end of the line very visible and have caught fish nymphing. It makes adjustments up or down in the water column fast and easy.
I’ve caught many-many more fish using wet flies and nymphs with neon orange or yellow Tenkara level lines, plus fluoro tippet appropriate for the depth. I do take the extra step of tying on a section of Orvis chartreuse, orange, and white tricolor sighter on all my level lines, with white at the bottom to make it both more visible under varied light conditions and possibly a little less visible to fish if the end of the line dips below the surface.
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Maybe, just maybe. On certain very highly pressured waters like Silver Creek or the South Platte, maybe. I suspect that line shadow is more of a concern but color and movement might also play a role. I’m not convinced line color has any effect on my fishing in my waters. I might scare some fish with the bright line color I use, but I seem to catch plenty of fish to keep me coming back. I also fish casting upstream. If I was concerned about the effects of line color I’d cast downstream, so the fly is always presented to the fish first, followed by the tippet.
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I fished Dartmoor a few years back when the water was low. I switched to a clear fluorocarbon level line, it made a big difference. However, it only works if you’re fishing Tenkara style in the surface film or dry as the only indication you can look out for is the the fish rising. It definitely has its place and I always carry a clear line.
Btw I use 12 or 10lb Spiderwire
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In general I find most advice to be more rooted in personal preference.
I fish a white translucent line that is extremely visible and I agree with @Brian_Miller that seeing the line behavior will convert more fish than not seeing it.
I have no doubt there are conditions where my line choice spooks fish, but I choose to ignore that probability. Just the same as my choice to only fish size 12 or 14 versions of a futsu. There will be conditions that the fish prefer something else. I fish what I enjoy most and do my best with those choices.
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This may be heavy handed but there is always motivation for commercial entities to embellish on the complexity of angling or that they alone have the secret to unlock our full potential. Really the entirety of the fly and conventional fishing industry is founded on this tactic.
It takes discipline to resist it. That would be my best advise. Your powers of observation and
experimentation on the water will serve you better. Also, if you have the opportunity to fish with other anglers of your skill or higher…that can help excellerate your productivity. I am not sure if ever a gear choice has ever made a dramatic difference in any of my fishing. My gear is pretty humble, but what has improved me as an angler is time on the water.
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Like some other comments, I too use a colored sighter above my tippet but haven’t noticed that spooking fish. I also sometimes am using 4x or even 3x tippet and I don’t buy into the idea of fish being “leader shy.” Maybe in some highly pressured waters for selective fish 6x and a 22 Midge is the only way, but for most of my regular waters that’s not the case. It’s usually my rod or myself that is the spook.
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I generally agree…like 80% of the time most water and most conditions tippet visibility may not matter. Sort of applies to most species as well.
But… tippet diameter is most often a factor of rod rating for us, and going too heavy may risk breakage.
If we are fishing drys or a surface presentation in high sun, some note the caustic light projection can spook fish. I suspect the larger the diameter the larger the issue. Some folk will coax the line below the film. I have read that some will abrade the line so it is both less shiny and will break the water tension. I personally dont fish dries so I have not explored these avenues much.
Other considerations are with presentation. Tippet diameter and stiffness will affect drift, this can play more into certain presentations or fly choice. The stiffer the tippet the more constrained the presentation. The larger the diameter the more drag. Sometimes the details can make a difference. It would be hard to quantify with tippets, but it is a factor the wider diameters will scope out faster. This can be both and advantage or disadvantage depending on intent.
In general, my tippet choice is crude. 5-6x nylon. Really leaning into the “good enough” for most situations column.
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In my experience makes a big difference sometimes. Why? Because I fish a lot and I just catch more and bigger fish with stealthy lines than bright ones, and I’ve been experimenting long enough to confidently say it can’t be a coincidence. Small stream for opportunistic fish - not so much. Bigger, more experienced fish - they see a bright line a mile away and I am convinced it shuts them down. And I don’t think it’s just sz 22 midges it can be any flies in clear water and it can cause missed opportunities without realizing they are being missing out on.
I overcome this with two-tone Rio sighter and judicious line color selection that makes it less likely for the bright line to get under the water where they can see it from much farther away (snell’s circle protects the line above & off the water). I do this by making level lines as follows:
Sunline FC sniper invisible for ~60%, butt of line.
Next ~20%, 0.5 line size down, fluorescent line. I like Sunline’s fluorescent pink it’s moderately visible, but also using Nissin Oni line in orange if really I need to see it.
Next 10%, sniper same size as the fluorescent line.
I then tack on 60 cm of two-tone Rio black and white sighter, usually 2x or 3x, but can be 4x if fish are really tough. The fish aren’t spooked by this line.
Tippet ring then 1-1.5 m of 4.5x.
With this rig I can go from fishing dry or in the film to about 2.5 m of leader submerged in the water. I can therefore cover the wide variability in depth of my home river. And I can see enough of the line I get sufficient feedback on line position and casting.
I also leave 1/2” tags on my blood knots. They really stand out. I try to cut and tie my two-tone so the tag is half black half white. I get tangles once in a while but infrequently enough that the benefit outweighs the drawback.
If you aren’t trying to fool educated fish this stuff probably doesn’t matter. But if you want to maximize success I think you will find this is the kind of thing that separates the 10% of fishermen that catch 90% of the fish from the rest of the pack. Details matter.
John
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My thoughts on this are that yes depending on context line diameter and colour does matter and I always try to use the lightest and most subtle line that I can get away with.
John’s idea of using a clear line with just a section or two of sighter material is probably the most effective way to fish if your eyes are up to it. Also when using weighted flys you can get away with a much lighter line which will also lessen line sag and improve your drifts.
Another aspect of all this is the confidence that you have in your setup and how that relates to catching fish. I think the more you experiment with your rig the more you figure out what is helping you catch fish which leads to catching more of them.
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I would agree with this. If you think it is giving you and edge, the confidence can be a powerful tool.
@Lkn4trout
Regarding clear lines and educated fish. If what you note is true them it would be impossible for any of us to have caught large wild fish, and it certainly would make it impossible for a traditional fly angler to catch any fish on heavily pressured rivers with a heavy opaque fly line.
I personally do not consider the possibility that fish are educated. A better term is pressured or sensitive. They are more likely to be sensative to our presence, than to our lines that most often dont ever enter the water. Tenkara is an intimate approach to fly fishing and often we are on top of them. It is surprising we can catch any fish at all, but sort of proves that the power of a good presentation is paramount.
The reason I note the potential that trout probably cannot be educated, is because there have been times on heavily pressured waters, i have caught the same fish in the same spot using the same technique for a whole season. If we get on heavily pressured water and someone has recently fished it, it can shut a stretch down. The fish can become wary or sensitive to any disturbance…but I feel this is a short term condition.
To add, larger fish can be largely nocturnal feeders which can give the illusion that they are smarter somehow. It can be more of a factor that they feed differently and at a different interval for different forage than the smaller trout. Most large fish I get are incidental, but I do catch a few each year.
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You know that comment spurred a memory from this April. I caught the same fish in the same spot with the same exact fly about 45 mins apart. As it turns out that fish was undernourished and needed to eat, so it was aggressively and opportunistically feeding. So maybe educated isn’t the right word. Learned and innate behaviors both play a role but us humans tend to anthropomorphize without thinking about it. So to be more accurate I’m speaking of selective trout, vs opportunistic trout. I’m most often fishing for selective trout.
In any event bright orange or pink isn’t natural looking and I think it can scare fish away. Also, what I’m talking about being an issue is the line getting submerged close to the trout. It’s a very different thing to have a bright Tenkara line submerged 1 -1.5m from the trout than to have an opaque fly line floating in the meniscus 3 m from the trout.
I’m also not saying fish can’t be caught with bright lines I’m saying I think sometimes it can make a difference, and it’s not very hard to see a bright line under water. By fishing stealthy lines, one can take that potential variable out of the equation.
As far as nocturnal feeding / fish behavior / catching big fish, I know that every single day I fish on my home river I have a chance at a trout over 22”. So I’m trying my best to do things right to make that happen. I generally only catch those fish when I do everything exactly right. I agree that intelligence isn’t really a factor, but I know that the bigger fish seem to require certain things to happen to be caught regularly. My experience is when these kinds of details are ignored success goes down. I think that’s a “thing” in fly fishing.
John
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I can second the notion that trout seem to switch between more aggressive/opportunistic feeding and selective/cautious feeding.
Observations I’ve made while diving in fishing holes leads me to believe that large trout tend to feed more cautiously than small trout.
My though is that stealth matters more when seeking large trout.
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I agree with the first statement and will extend it to all trout no matter the size. What is different about large and small is the interval and conditions they become opportunistic. Large trout feed differently and at a different interval. There are plenty of articles on the subject and the concept extends to other species. Sometimes our fly is just too small to convert them. They too are opportunistic but night time might be the right time to target them.
Often we think fish are selective but they are often not. It is our job to determine the when, the what fly, and which presentation will convert them. All fish need to eat.
Example: If I fish high noon with a bright high sun, fishing just will not be as productive as other times. Conditional exceptions to this generalization is if a hatch is on or the sun brings cold water temps higher to facilitate feeding. To the untrained angler who sees fish, but cannot catch them…they may seem educated or selective. They may simply not be feeding. If they are feeding or not, it is our job to figured out the right presentation or profile to draw a strike. Challenging yes, but not something trout learn. It is we, who have not learned to read the conditions and how to covert them in those conditions.
Larger trout. You can google it. They simply feed differently. They can pick off a juvenile trout or two at night and sit in the shade of a deep pool all day digesting them. Most larger fish of any species have different feeding habits.
It can also be a Darwinian thing that they got big because of their behavior. Not that it was learned but incidental. Just like humans all animals have personalities, traits, and behavior that can make them suck or optimal in different environments. Big trout have behaviors that allowed them to become big and optimal in their environment. In heavily pressured water, they were sensitive to predators including anglers. The first fish to be culled will be the sub-optimal. If they are harvested or not…there is a mortality percentage in catch and release. The fish that are caught often will probably perish faster. A factor of odds.
As an example of fish behavior. I was fishing with an angler and he broke his rod. I stopped fishing the pool and stepped into the run to hand him my spare rod. As we stood there, I spied a trout 3 feet from me in clear view. I presented to it several times…each time this trout boldly struck the fly and wiggled to its freedom. Funny rinse and repeat 4-5 times. This trout was bold to a fault. A wild hungry trout did not care I was standing over it. Other trout in this stream would dart and never be seen again on an approach error…let alone standing over it having loud conversation then actually casting to it. hahahahahaha.
We all fish bright orange and pink when we add a hot spot to our flies. It does not scare fish away. How about all those guys fishing bobbers/indicators or super high vis fly lines? Just recently I had a casting lesson with a traditional flyrod and we were casting just a puff of bright orange indicator and we had a couple of really large rainbows come up and hammer them…ahhahahahah. Savage!
It is too bad Oz’s series does not have the trout vision available. It was also on youtube for free for a bit. http://www.underwateroz.com/
In a nutshell the Oz documents that trout vision is horrible. Like their focus with detail is said to be when they are within inches from an object. Best illustrated on strikes with last minute refusals. But…they are extremely sensitive to light change. So shadows and movement are what will startle them. Line casting shadow, rod casting shadow, anglers casting shadow are all things I am most conscious of when I fish water.
It is quite possible that line color may make a difference but it is probably very low on the list, and other faults are more likely to turn fish off long before our line hits the water. Line color is not even a consideration for me at all…except I prefer a highly visible white line for myself…to act as an indicator.
It could be that in your particular water line color is a special consideration I am not sensitive to or experienced with. It is mostly with my experience, I do not think it matters. When I am not catching fish, I chalk it up to an approach error, a presentation error, or the possibility someone or something disrupted the pool before my arrival. Most of the time it is a presentation error that I eventually correct.
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I hope this article helps…it supports the Oz documentation as i recall it…different source same note.
So with this in mind… a fly line 2-3 feet away will be not be in enough visual focus to impact trout. Line landing hard or moving erratically is a different story.
I suspect fly impact of lateral line and visual shape…so shape and how something moves its signature through motion and water displacement is what matters.
for the lazy who will not read the above but should.
Screen left is human vision of a fly at 12", screen right is what a trout sees.
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It’s a myth that big fish switch to a large-prey only diet. The largest trout I have caught in my home river, both 26.5”, respectively, on sz 16 and 18 flies. Large trout feed extensively on smaller insects, and anglers can find substantial success fishing for them with small flies, particularly in the winter. During summer crayfish patterns and bigger streamers work really well, but the fish spread out, into often impossible to reach water. In winter they concentrate in slow deep water and catching them with small flies bring some of the best opportunities of the year.
I have seen trout be spooked by colored sighters with my own eyes on multiple occasions, cloud cover or not, on long casts where the entry point is several meters from the fish so no disturbance issues. Nobody can convince me that it’s fine and dandy all the time to run fluorescent line close to the trout. In low clear water on the rivers I fish, it’s an unnecessary potential liability, but it may be just fine for other situations. Nonetheless at times using bright lines submerged close to the trout means you are going to catch fewer fish, I know this from first hand experience and I am confident many other anglers have had similar experiences.
Bobbers and indicators also shut fish down too. I do not use them anymore because I am convinced fish can quickly become aware of their presence and it can shut them down. Well that and indicators have many other inherent flaws too numerous to list without going off topic. As far as fish hitting them, in 25 years of fishing in my area it’s never happened. I had it happen only once, on Jackson Lake.
Re-hot spots, a small speck of orange on a fly is something entirely different that a piece of bright orange line aligned vertically in a river. Try snorkeling sometime and look at what that looks like for yourself. It stands out drastically and it’s very unnatural.
So guess we can just agree to disagree - I don’t rely on Google, I rely on my on-stream observations. The trout give me all the feedback I need.
Cheers,
John
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Hahaha.
You are making assumptions about how I roll. My experience is also 100% on the water, just backing some of it up academically.
All my big trout have been on small flies. Never stated they wouldnt take a small fly. I am not a big trout hunter. I personally do not feel tenkara is a practical tool for the endeavor.
I mostly fish the salt and the biggest of trout are toys compared to what is commonplace in the salt.
There are many things that can turn trout off. I just believe most of what we believe is inaccurate and easily disproven.
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Perhaps my comments are being taken personally. That wasn’t intentional. Thanks for your comments they are appreciated.
I have fished for trout off the beach in BC too it’s so much fun. Some of the most predatory behavior I’ve ever seen. Where are you fishing? Sounds like a blast.
Cheers,
John
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Not a problem… this is just some healthy debate. Hahaha. We are just standing our ground on the matter. It is not taken personally.
I am in the northeast. You can probably tell by my accent.
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