I have a question: Why do companies make zoom rods? What are their advantages over conventional tenkara rods? They are slightly heavier than conventional rods, they have improved balance, and the center of gravity is shifted closer to the handle. I hope the translation is correct, I’m interested in your thoughts on this issue. Or maybe it’s just marketing?)))
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Vladimir,
Personally I think it is mostly marketing. However, to be fair, it does give a person the ability to use different lengths if needed. I prefer conventional rods and just change line lengths.
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Here are some previous discussions on this topic:
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Hi David, I’m glad that my English with Google translator is relatively clear. Marketing is an interesting version. Increasing the length adds power to the rod when landing fish from the water.
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Why do companies make zoom rods? Because their customers want them.
Why do their customers want them? Because they fish in many different locations, where rods of different lengths would be appropriate. Perhaps they do not want to buy two or three rods when they can buy one that will fit different conditions. Perhaps they are going on a backpacking trip and would rather carry one rod instead of two or three.
A top quality single-length rod is more pleasant to fish with, but for many people that is not the only consideration. Every rod is a compromise.
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Some zoom rods cast best at certain lengths, but then can be extended or dropped when fighting fish.
Some zoom rods I will fish full extension but will sometimes drop shorter in heavy foliage when fighting fish.
I used to have a couple long rods that casted better at shorter lengths but would fight fish better at longer lengths if the vertical clearance was available.
Is it a necessary feature? No.
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Thank you very much for your attention, all the information is useful for me.
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Vladimir,
Sorry I’m so slow in replying to you. I have a number of zoom rods and I use to only fish the shortest length. As time passed I started using the longest length on the zoom rod. I know I didn’t use these rods as they were intended but I still like the zoom rods. I began using 300cm to 360 cm when I started tenkara fishing but I have now migrated to 380cm-450cm. I’m guessing that as we become more experience and comfortable casting tenkara rods we start using the longer rod sections. I’m still not using the zoom rods to its fullest advantage but maybe that will be my next step in becoming a better tenkara angler. At least I have slowed down on breaking rod tips while fishing. At one time I thought that I might have to take on an extra part-time job just to cover the cost of all the rod tips I was breaking. Thank heavens that has not happen in a while.
I hope all is well with you and your family my friend. Take care.
.
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Mike, thank you for your story and for your concern. I am fine, I hope you are fine too.
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Zooming your rod longer to help land a fish will (in effect) shorten the line compared to total line length to make it easier to get a hold of the line to hand line in the fish.
It is a deeply ingrained false belief that longer rods provide more leverage to fight fish with. How so? The angler is on the wrong end of the lever. The fulcrum for rod leverage is located at the front of the angler’s casting hand, so all the leverage is on the fish’s side of the line.
The limiting factor in playing and landing big fish is tippet strength. One hundred % line strength is available in hand lining in the fish, which the rod detracts from for tippet protection.
In The Technology of Fly Rods, Don Phillips did spring scale tests with a imaginary fish anchored at ground level at 10, 25 and 50 feet with the rod butt held at 90, 40 and 20 degrees from horizontal. Two values of pulling force were recorded - just enough force to put a bend in the rod and the second with as much force as possible with out straining his wrist or breaking the rod.
The maximum sustainable force increases from 1 to 3 pounds when the rod butt angle is reduced from 90 to 20 degrees. The three-fold increase in fish fighting pressure was achieved because the effective rod length was reduced by two-thirds.
Effective rod length is not between thr angler’s hand and the rod tip, but the perpendicular distance the angler’s hand and a line whose direction coincides with the line pulling force. The 20 degree rod butt orientation was most effective using side pressure. When the side-angled pulling force is timed to change the fish’s direction of travel, it multiplies the tiring effect on fish.
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Karl, that is true for all rods, right? Tenkara especially true as even the shortest of rods is held from the very end.
Not many tenkara anglers fish a rod shorter than 12 feet. That is a long rod…a long lever.
So, if that is true, then all tenkara rods must be poor tools…which we know is not the case.
In the context of zoom rods.
Longer sections will help tire large or any sized fish out especially if they have adequate flex are matched to the right tippet. They can even tame fish that theoretically are out of the rods class.
Some folk may misuse the descriptor leverage, but it may not be a literal mechanical descriptor. Some might use the term to generalize how a longer rod gives them an advantage… which it can be. An advantage that gives them the upperhand or leverage on a fish.
A longer setting of a zoom rod is just a longer spring with a more versatile gradient of pressure. Usually it is a comparatively lighter penny measurement to the other settings. I feel this pushes the action in the direction to more moderate. This pressure gradient is what makes it easier to throttle pressure and protect the tippet. It absorbs the lunges and tires fish out rapidly with less effort on the angler.
In other disciplines I also prefer more moderate action blanks for fighting fish. Really fast action rods require us to use our arms and body more during fish fighting.
Next time you are using a zoom rod and have a heavier fish on, experiment with the lengths. It should be a stark advantage.
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With a fly rod the lower angle allows us maximum pressure and takes the light spring of the tip we use for casting a flyline out of the equation. I use this a lot fishing for striped bass on a flyrod. That low angle engages the lower segments of the rod and also starts moving twards no lever advantage and all hand pressure or drag pressure. I ride the line of this pressure and sonetimes loose when I break my 20 lb tippet. It is fun.
That said, a tenkara rod does not have line we can play out or a drag to protect a tippet. Moving to a 20 or even a 45 degree fighting angle does not have the same utility. It may result in a dropped fish. We really need the power curve engaged…the spring.
Side pressure reduces lifting strain on us, it also reduces a fish’s probability of jumping. There are scenarios we want to lift a fish or cannot apply side pressure. Obstacles in the water or on land to name some reasons. Also, lifting the trouts head slightly out of the water…sipping air… is a known technique to shorten the fight time.
In general, I feel we can learn from other disciplines and there can be cross over, but not everything will have crossover utility.
The fly rodder also has more line out. In tenkara we are most often already in the fish landing radius which always requires a higher angle to guide a fish.
I fish barbless hooks a lot and if I am into a mess of fish, i will drop my rod tip to a 45 to release them early. Next time I am out, i will pay more attention but I think to engage the power curve we have to be at least 80 degrees with the rod butt vs the fish pulling direction.
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G, the Power Curve can still be engaged and maintained while using side pressure, you just do it sideways instead of vertically.
Applying side pressure to steer the fish in the direction you want it to go compensates to some extent for the lack of line length and the cutch effect of the reel with a drag and line ength to play out.
Abruptly changing the angle of line pull 180 degrees instantly confuses the fish and can cause it to give up the fight much more quickly.
Additionally, side pressure will cause the fish to swim in to the shore (it helps to be fishing from a point) so all you have to do is reach out with your line hand to gain control of the line, transfer the line to your rod hand for control (which takes all the stress off of the rod) and strip the fish in to hand with your line hand, which is much more controlled than doing the hand over hand line retrieve. Give it a try and see what you think…Karl.
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@T-stillwater I am aware of and use side pressure.
What I am noting are related to your 20 degree fighting angle notes. Side pressure diminishes angle in a single axis but is not the pressure or major fighting axis.
I think there can be some misinterpretation of the Don Phillips tests as I suspect he is taking about reducing the major fighting axis whether it be forward or side. In his case side has more stress on the rod. The technique of nearly pointing at the fish uses the lower stouter region of the rod and the pressure we put on the line to fight the fish. Hand stripping or hand breaking the flyline pressure…or using the reel retrieve or drag…is the method to fight big fish.
Those tactics do not apply to tenkara.
Definitely share a link or a pic of the text of the Don Phillips material. Context matters and is not always universal.
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The Technology of Fly Rods was published in the year 2000, so Tenkara fly fishing and the rods made to do it with were not on the horizon. The author- Don Phillips had earned a Bachelor Of Science degree ln Mechanical Engineering and a Master of Science degree in Business Management.
He designed and developed the first fly rod made from boron fibers, producing over 700 rods and blanks under the FlyCraft label. Although Don felt boron was the superior rod making material, it was more expensive and problematic to build rods with. Whereas graphite fibers are woven into a materials and utilize the same manufacturing techniques that fiberglass rods are made with, and graphite came to dominate the rod making industry. Not because it is a better material but because it is cheaper and easier to work with.
Tenkara rods designed to catch trout out of high mountan streams are not the best tools to target big fish with, and I doubt that most T-anglers target big fish intentionally. But, Big fish do happen from time to time. And when they do, you have to do the best you can with what you have.
Side Pressure is an angling technique that can allow an angler to defeat an over matched fish by psychological means instead of heavy tackle and brute strength.
Fish, instinctively run away from danger. When the angler pressures the fish in every direction the fish tries to take to escape, most fish will eventually give up the fight and offer little resistance to being brought in.
The best way to develop the shills to do this slight of hand is to practis doing it with the size fish you usually catch. That way, you will be ready when a Big Fish takes your fly and you can release it with out having to battle it to exhaustion.
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Karl,
A couple notes. Most of us know how to properly fight larger trout and yes, a flyrod or conventional gear is a better tool for bigger fish.
You have to agree that we are far off topic.
There are other more detailed threads about fighting large fish. Perhaps you should start a new one so we can discuss it in more detail.
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I looked into it and tuna fishermen say the shorter the rod, the more leverage the angler has. But for fishing in competition, the shortest rod that can be used is 5.5 feet long. So, zooming a zoom rod out to its longest length does not add additional leverage to fight fish with.
A mouse has four paws.
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And the White Knight is talking backwards .
**Jal, your statement shows that you are the one who does not understand how levers work. Tuna anglers can have to deal with fish that can swim at 60 MPH or more and weigh in excess of 1,000 pounds; they have to take physics into account. All flexible levers (fishing rods regardless of type) work on the same principles.
A lever is a very simple tool with only 2 parts - a beam and a pevit point or fulcrum. The working end of the beam is the short end of the beam beyond the fulcrum. The long end of the beam is what supplies the pressure to do the lifting.
In the case of a fishing rod, the angler’s hand on the grip is the fulcrum and the long arm of the lever is the rod blank, which gives all the leverage advantage to the fish and creates a lot of confusion among anglers.
Think of prying the lid off of a can of paint with a screwdriver, The lifting part is the tip of the screwdriver blade, the fulcrum is the rim of the paint can, and the lever arm is screwdriver shaft and handle. An angler is on the can lid side of the screw driver.